Dining across the divide: ‘She had a deep-rooted community attitude. I find it astonishing that she voted Reform’

Will a former Tory voter and a Lib Dem find any common ground on immigration – or the welfare bill?

Occupation Retired probation service officer

Voting record Always Conservative until 2024 when Avis voted Reform. She voted leave in the EU referendum

Amuse bouche Avis describes herself as “an old raver”. On her 50th birthday, she went to see the Prodigy

Voting record Lib Dem in the past but recently Labour. Describes herself as leftwing, 100% remain in the EU referendum and “still furious”

Amuse bouche Jessica, who now manages considerable amounts of taxpayers’ money, took five attempts to pass maths O-level

Avis I arrived a bit early, and had an espresso because they didn’t have any milk. The food was fabulous.

Jessica He makes his pasta every day, with different sauces. We had a tomato one, a kind of carbonara and a truffly one, all delicious.

Avis I told Jessica I’d worked in probation for 37 years and enjoyed it, also that I worked in a hostel for serious offenders, which was challenging.

Jessica I told Avis about my daughter at university in America. We also talked about our dogs, holidays and coming up to retirement.

Avis I voted Reform because of the immigrant problem. Legal immigration’s not the issue – we need people to come to this country, to fill the gaps. It’s the illegals that are the worry. We don’t know who they are, what age they are, what criminal convictions they’ve got. It concerns me because my granddaughter wants to go and play in the park all the time.

Jessica Immigration gets confused with small boats, and the numbers involved are really small. I would stop the boats tomorrow if I could, but there needs to be a safe legal route for people genuinely seeking asylum.

Avis If they want to come, they should use the legal route. But if where they’ve come from is dangerous, we’ve got to give them a safe haven. There were protesters up at Hoghton Tower the other day, in their masks and black gear. I can understand their feelings but it’s not the right way to go about it.

Jessica We need to be thinking about overseas aid budgets, how to support people to stay in Eritrea or Afghanistan or wherever they’re running from. You don’t hear anything positive from Reform about any of that – all they do is say, “Throw everybody back” which is unworkable and racist.

Jessica Avis thinks welfare should be a safety net, not a lifestyle choice, and I agree. When you’re told someone is a Reform voter, you make judgments based on that, but in some ways Avis turned out to be quite leftwing.

Avis We pay a lot of taxes but we always have, even in the 1700s. We need to, to keep the country like it is; we’re very safe here compared with a lot of places. I’m patriotic, I like the king and queen, but I wouldn’t class myself as rightwing – they don’t want government-run things. But they say leftwing is woke, so I don’t know what I am.

Jessica Even if Nigel Farage is charismatic, charming and clever, it doesn’t get away from the fact that he’s a charlatan and a snake-oil salesman. I don’t believe for one second he gives a toss about this country or anyone living in it.

Avis I have been reading the policies and the majority are quite similar, so it’s really about personalities. I could see Nigel Farage as prime minister. He’s very good at orating. Kemi’s a fabulous talker. I like Andy, he seems a pleasant enough fella, but whether he’s a born leader, I’m not sure.

Avis I enjoyed the discussion. I think I have changed my mind and that it was a kneejerk reaction to worry about my grandchildren. And when I was in probation I saw a lot of young men – illegal immigrants – who had committed crimes and had totally different cultural values to us with regards to their partners. I know we have people like that in our own society but we don’t want more of them. That sounds racist, but I’m not racist.

Jessica Avis has a deep-rooted community attitude to life. To me that’s what the left is about. I find it astonishing that she voted Reform and I hope I confirmed some of the doubts she has about them. We were too full for pudding but both took a tiramisu home.